The Prince Rupert's Tower that has stood since the 18th Century has become synonymous with the Toffees since Theo Kelly incorporated it into the club's first badge was spray-painted on the brickwork and door with the number six.

Everton supporters have reacted with dismay on social media at the desecration of the 232-year-old structure which they deem as a step too far in reds fans' taunting in the wake of their Champions League success.

The Roundhouse, now a Grade II listed building, was named after the Bavarian-born Duke who fought in the Thirty Years' War and joined Charles I's army in the English Civil War.

His army is said to have stayed in Everton before attacking the Parliamentarians who were holding Liverpool Castle at the time.

The bridewell was later used to incarcerate wrong-doers and drunks until they could be hauled before the magistrate the following morning.

In more recent years following a rehabilitation project undertaken by then chairman Peter Johnson, the tower has been used more prominently in the club's social media marketing campaigns and has often been lit up in blue light at night.



4 June Update After being scrubbed clean of the red and white paint, the tower was vandalised again with the number 6 painted on the door and brickwork.

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First the Manchester City coach, then this...they certainly know to how rack up ill feeling, don't they ?

Our reprisals should only take place on the pitch. This is the team talk before every game against them in perpetuity.

Have they have had anything to say about this ? I am expecting the usual claims of 'banter' and 'friendly rivalry'. I wouldn't accept an apology.

Pathetic and it does remind me why everyone I know, whoever they support, wanted them to not win the League. Only Arsenal or West Ham wanted them to win last night.

It’s because their fans are infected with a sizeable contingent of self satisfied, conceited, gloating, patronising arseholes. Not all of them, but probably at least half of them. The sort of people you try and avoid whenever possible.

They are only famous these days because of largely sympathetic neutrals regarding Hillsborough for example, even that they weren’t white than white.

They really are the most odious scum on the planet, far worse than Millwall, at least Millwall have the face to accept they are shite scum but the Reds think they are just loveable little nice one lads having a laugh.

Scum, personally I’d take getting relegated next season if it meant doing the double over them and taking them with us!

If there’s one thing I want more than anything next season it’s to finally beat those bastards and hear all their smug whingeing mutant followers claiming we were lucky.

I’m stealing a comment from another blue but if some blues had been seen to clean it off, or at least attempt too, it might have made a difference and stopped what has happened and the worse mess I think could follow but hope not.

Naieve ? Maybe. But what price our new statue? Dixie? The pictures all round Goodison ? And the same from the RS perspective.

Nobody wins here. And by the way I hate them with every inch the passion expressed here. But keeping some form of neutral ground between us, like the grounds, the statues etc, and stopping the graffiti nonsense, it has to be right else where would it stop in a tit for tat nightmare?

I was reading Moyes last week talking about the Goodison atmosphere, a man who managed us for 11 seasons, got us to one cup final, and was clapped out of Goodison Pk, and think about how low we became celebrating coming best of the rest?

Everton football club have got to start winning again, because it’s the only way forward in this football mad city, and also the only thing that really counts unfortunately.

There are also games that can change the whole momentum of a Club. That happened. On the 29th May 1985 at Heysel stadium 39 people died as a result of a riot.

Now the anniversary of Heysel was only a few days ago. I can't really recall much of any sort of recognition of its 34th anniversary, maybe there was, maybe I missed it ?

But let's be clear that night dealt our Cub a blow that we never recovered from.We had a team, great individuals in a real team. A great mixture of youth and experience. A great backroom team from John Clinkard the physio to Howard the manager.

We were on a roll, great players, great character and great momentum.At the end of the season we didn't need half a dozen new faces just a couple to improve the squad.Who knows what we could have achieved and where we could have gone. We'll never know but all the signs were stellar.

Undoubtedly, at the time the best goalkeeper in Europe, if not the world. Young internationals, Experienced pros in Reid and Gray. A brilliant manager had assembled and instilled a winning mentality and physical fitness into a group that individually were not world beaters.

Anyway after that night at Heysel our Club went one way and we never recovered. During the ban we lost our better players and our manager.

Of course us "bitter" remember these things. Our cousins...……….well it never really happened, did it ?

Bitter ? YesReason to be bitter ? YesDo things like defacing the Tower help ? No, but no surprise really.

Where Heysel affected us was that it stalled our momentum. When Howard left, we made the mistake of appointing a manager who didn't really want the job. That's no reflection on the great Colin Harvey, who took the job out of a sense of duty. He signed some good players, but couldn't manage the rift between the old and the new. After the 1989 cup final we drifted, drifted, drifted ever downwards. We were badly managed, fell behind, lacked ambition, fell further behind.

We have a chance now. We have to stop talking about everyone else, focus on ourselves, get our house in order and pull together.

Moaning about Heysel won't help us, moaning about the pundits won't help us. We need to focus on helping ourselves.

Man Utd again were nothing special at that time. Their time came under Ferguson at the start of the Premier League era.

We'd proved we could match the RS. And, as Kendall said at the time the goal was to catch them - we did, and then match their success. We didn't. Why ? Simple, Heysel.

The teams you mentioned came much later. In my opinion and it's only an opinion, if Heysel hadn't had happened I reckon we would or could have had years of success with the set up we had. Such that when the PL era started we would have been in a far better state than we were both financially and success wise.

Where to start though.I am absolute sick of the way football has been taken away from us true fans.Of all clubs that is.

The fan that pays to be there. The fans that prioritisesthe match over anything does not matter anymore

This has just been discussed with friends on a group chat and I am baffled as to why 90% of clubs in europe put up with the format of the Champions League.

I speak for a lot of clubs here but here, as Evertonians its even worse.We have the bias and favouritism in our faces from phoney cling on supporters that often hate scousers and often idiotic individuals that have no intention of ever paying for a ticket.

I could go on forever here but I tell everyone I would rather Everton won nothing forever and kept our roots and dignity before we became the McDonalds of football like that mental shower of cling ons.

If buying a shirt means your a fan and that helps your club to spend, then I suggest we all buy an Everton and City shirt because FFP is another favourable dimension for them to use their cling ons fans as an excuse to screw every other club over.

As I said earlier, Kenwright held us back by refusing to sell us and being desperate to cling onto his train set. I mentioned Man U, Chelsea, Man City as they all transformed in the Premier League era whilst we just stagnated and declined. That wasn’t because of Heysel, it was because they had a plan and they had money we had a plan to stay in the top half of the league and not seek investment and we are reaping the results of that.

Look at the shite too, they also stagnated after the 90’s but they also had a plan and a strategy under their latest owners and it is only the last 3/4 years that they have re-established themselves as back in the top 4.

I think I’m disillusioned though because the lack of consistency throughout the game I love, is constantly getting justified by nothing more than a media circus.

I don't think enough people understand the implications of FFP for clubs like our that failed to join the rich ventures in the 80s and 90s.

City and Chelsea just about beat the worst of it but it means we can't have 4 200 grand a week players in our team.

It means if we have a player we can offer 100 grand to, Spurs can offer him 150.We have all got to put up with this forever now while the top clubs can have all the elite players because fans in South Australia buy their shirts and they have CL money.

What they have done now has crossed the line and Everton Football Club should now put these scumbags on trial until we play them next season and punish these demons TWICE next season and really rub it in on them.

Even now as I sit here I’m thinking of ways to get to Anfield with a tin of blue paint and give the Shankly statue a new lick of paint.

Let’s hope this incident of vandalism today is used to really fuck these dirty sewer skank rats over next season.

You can't take it away from them, they have won 'it' six times. But I'll take being an ever-hopeful blue over being a classless red twat any day of the week.

I still have memories in black and white of my two lads posing in front of the roundhouse on Everton Brow taken a week before we migrated to Canada in 1980 so it's really upsetting to see this beloved Everton icon vandalised by morons who obviously have severe mental problems a disgrace to the city and BOTH our clubs,

In closing lets hope Prenton Parks Tranmere continues to make their way up the promotion ladder to even bigger successes in the future, Well Done Lads

When Evertonians unite, they carry as much noise and passion as any set of fans, and if we can get in some more good players, then I’m certain the crowd can push these players on, but what we need more than anything is a real united football club, right now?

It takes time but everyone is saying how clever that Klopp is, but I’m really not that sure? Clever for doing Everton’s team-talk before the last derby, which might have just cost his team the league. (World Cup final)

Clever for losing it on the young ballboy, who was laughing at him because he was a wise little scouse kid, who saw right through Jurgen’s jibe? Or clever for telling his keeper to go up for a last minute corner in Barcelona, which would have resulted in his team conceding another goal if he’d obeyed his managers orders?

I’m not sure Klopp is as clever as he’s being made out to be, but maybe I’m wrong, because the first thing he did when he got to Anfield, was to unite the players and the fans, and when everyone is on the same page then anything is possible, you’ve just got to have that real belief to begin with first? Imo.

As an eighty year old Evertonian, while I consider such acts as reprehensible, I am never surprised by what they do. The fact that they were Kopites is actually pleasing, as it gives me one more reason to despise the RS.

In the past I was delighted when we won any trophy. However Victory is fleeting and only lasts until the next defeat. As a fan you can only boast about it for about forty eighty hours. You can chant "We won the cup" and rub it in to all those who didn't. Unfortunately nobody else even cares after very short period of time. You also have to realize that all you really are is a supporter of a team and "YOU"didn't win anything the team did.

I will be Blue until I am no longer around and while we seem to be in a prolonged era of not winning trophies I will continue to be delighted when we win our next game. I NEVER regret being an Evertonian. I do my very best to never care what the Red In-breds do. By about Tuesday nobody else will really care either. It is only the next game that matters.

Doing this and I recall once they painted Dixie’s statue, the Brick again, won’t be forgotten, just like Heysel, won’t be forgotten.

That’s a fact of the start of our demise and it’s a fact the directorship and leadership of EFC, has waned and waned. And we are making up the numbers in the EPL each season.

It’s up to the EFC board, now to sponsor and drive for a success on the pitch and a new starting point in EFC history.

The clock of life doesn’t stop for no one, but this season, EFC, must up the anti and aim for winning every game, and be ruthless against the RS.

EFC, must take stock, of what’s happened and aim high, and higher, as the dynamics of business and progress conspire against us, due to Old Nick.

Also, I have to agree that the star inside the one 6 has nothing to do with Spurs or anti-Semitism — one of their lot tweeted me six stars denoting... well, you know what. Jammy bastids

That shower flying high since it came through, Juve who were relegated 2 divisions a few years back now dominate Italy again, while the other shower hit the luck of facing the team in the champions league final couldnt buy anyone because the stadium was their funds.

That is sadly what we are up against Tony and I cannot help but see things from both sides as much as I want to favour Everton.

Off subject has anyone seen the video going around of their great supporters fighting with each other on what looks like a coach?

Seems like what my Dad used to call common sense, but good man-management is seemingly regarded as genius these days.

I’ve already mentioned it on T/W somewhere today, but I predicted Peter Walton would contradict himself the other week, and if you listen to his comments about the penalty last night, and then listen to his comments during Liverpool’s game in Barcelona, when Messi wanted a pen for handball, then this is such a major worry for everyone who can see the level of inconsistency which operates within the game of football?

Who really needs ex-referees on the telly, when the game of football has already become a circus, especially when they judge, just like their mates referee, favouring one team, and not always being consistent with their decisions?

He’s got them very fit, he’s got the crowd onside, he signed some good players and these are the things that got them really believing. And we all know how much confidence real belief brings, it’s just been that long since we’ve had it at Everton FC, that most of us seem to have forgotten this?

1987 was the last trophy. 5 years later, the Premier League started. Two years later, we needed a 3-2 win over Wimbledon to stay up. We appointed Kendall Mk III and just survived with a draw on the last day. We sank farther and farther back into the pack as the Sky money took over.

And then, 17 years afterwards, Kenwright became Chairman. But no, it was his fault and only his. We lost our way over the previous 17 years and yes it did not get better except on the pitch and we became best of the rest - because for those 17 years we were nowhere near that. But let's blame him.

And let's try to commemorate Heysel. A match between Everton and Juve. What would have been the 1985 UEFA Super Cup.

Even more than the big decisions that go against less favoured clubs is the 50/50s that don't go your way and there is tons of them.

Them big sides get them niggly fouls and bits of holding all the time and the media never highlight who benefits.

I would rather Everton fc wrote to Liverpool fc asking them to publicly admonish the perpetrators - whoever they are- and plead for information on the same. Everton should also publicy appeal for no acts of reprisal.

That should show the World we are bigger than that shower of shite, which after all, is why we are Evertonians and not kopites.

On the topic of the penalty, I am surprised it was awarded and even more surprised that the VAR crew confirmed it. Typical luck of RS this entire season IMO. Corruption - who knows? probably just bad decision making, though.

If our owner cannot raise the funds, can we set up a funding campaign to buy and install a number of blue coloured floodlights and sit them on top of the Royal Liver Building, owned through our own Mr Moshiri.

Having those Liver Birds highlighted in a wonderful blue colour every night is the best reminder that this is our city. And let them try and vandalise them!

PS Great service to Football by Anthony Joshua to deliberately lose his titles so everyone would forget the win within 6 hours!

For Evertonians of a certain age (50 and over) it is the lack of atonement on their part that rankles. The European ban hurt us but what truly pisses blues and others off is that the event is being air brushed out of history. No memorial, no victims fund, no enquiry fuck all. To quote that bitter blue Mark Lawrenson - the club has swept it under the carpet. It is little wonder the city is portrayed by outsiders as mawkish and hypocritical.

Some have said that knighthoods were handed out for accepting our fate but, unfortunately, we've shown the same sort of boardroom leadership ever since and recently with the number of managers in a comparatively short space of time and an unambitious 52K capacity new stadium.

Their six European Cups will give them a place in football history but we must ensure that the present watershed we are at really is to our advantage.

These outsiders also call us “bitter blues” but probably don’t even know how much Everton suffered because of the European ban, at a time when the hardest thing about winning the European cup, was winning the old first division, which is something Everton had obviously just done.

Growing up in this city, it’s part and partial to take things on the chin, but it hurts when these smug fuckers laugh at our lack of success in Europe, for obvious fucking reasons, although you really do have to be over a certain age, to really understand this?

They hate us, we hate them, but as the song goes, “We shall not be moved” and deep down real Liverpudlians fucking know this?

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/heysel-hillsborough-english-football-has-selective-memory-when-it-comes-tragedy-1503478

I don't disagree with a single sentiment about what you said about Hillsborough or the dignity of families. Like everyone else in the City I was appalled by the cover-up and the media manipulation of the tragedy. However I don't believe that outsiders view of the city will change until both tragedies are treated with a degree of equanimity.

The population of the metropolitan county of Merseyside is given as 1,480,000. That's Liverpool, Wirral, Sefton (as far as Southport), St Helens (going as far as Haydock), Knowsley. So one in two (before you strip out Evertonians) from that whole area lined the streets?!

They will call me bitter for resenting a song that talks about conquering all of Europe. This song might be all about the football to them, but to me it smacks of lacking class, and dignity, and also having no shame?

If Kenwright is to blame or not to blame, Moshiri is correct in that he’s took over a relic of a once famous football club, and it’s time for Evertonians to unite, and start making some real memories for ourselves once again.

For the people who don’t believe it’s possible, or for the younger generation of “UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLY LOYAL EVERTONIANS” I cast my mind back to New Year’s Day on 1984, and think how poor my team had become, and then I go forward 17 months to Rotterdam, and the shivers I had in my whole body, when the English champions, had just won the cup winners cup, and the fans were leaving the ground singing (“Our Song” it fuckin is our song) “just like the team that’s going to win the fucking lot, we shall not be moved”, so don't tell me it isn’t possible, because I know it bloody well is!!

Deep breath guys, let them have their moment in the sun and remember what goes around comes around. Of course there is bias against any team other in the media, not just Everton, but we feel it because we are close to the daily dose of self righteous opinionated ignorance.. But the pendulum will swing again have no fear.

We feel it because it wasn't us, we feel it because we want it badly, we feel it because it seems a long way off.. but it's the laughter and ridicule that cuts the deepest.

I only hope when Moshiri holds the next board meeting after he has been ridiculed personally by some colleague or competitor that he slams the door shut in that boardroom and shouts never again to those seated at his table.

And where does it even suggest the Klopp mural has been defaced with such a slur, as I can’t find anything?

The point I am making Mark is it’s about time someone hit back, they are like the playground bullies that think they can do what they want yet start whining and crying when someone does it to them?

I’m not arsed if anyone has/hasn’t graffitied on their scrapyard, but if they have then let’s be honest they can’t moan and whinge because what goes around comes around.

We have to build on the current progress that we have recently had - get ourselves an out-and-out striker and burst into the "Top Six" ASAP. nudging Man Utd, Arsenal or Chelski out ;-)

Defacing the tower was the lowest of low scumbag acts, only worthy of R. R. supporters. No class, no respect.

They call us bitter but moments like this is why we hate them, they just don't understand it or refuse to.

I honestly expect nothing less from a team who unveiled a banner seemingly pissing all over the Heysel tragedy just for 'banter'.

I hope that if Everton ever do become successful again, we don't give them lot a second thought. We will win a cup and they will throw 6 times at us - even if we won the league.

I think the initial ban was instigated by the FA, followed by UEFA's ban. The FA'S ban was probably put in place partly as a reaction to the general hooliganism taking place by English supporters following their teams abroad including those from Spurs, Leeds, Manchester United and the national team. Enough was enough.

If Everton had taken it to court to overturn the ban and been successful, as suggested in an earlier post, on the basis that our fans were well-behaved when travelling abroad, then other clubs could have logically tried the same thing.

Personally, it's difficult to argue that our club has been badly managed over the years from the top down. Having been part of the movement to instigate the Premier League, we just didn't have the commercial management team in place at the time to realise the potential of the Premier League and have been left behind...and will be playing catch-up for a while.

In the meantime, whatever your national allegiance, let's get behind Jonjoe, Kieran and Dominic in the U21's Euro Finals

They are the school kid that gets picked on by the bigger, more powerful bully (United in this case), so what does a kid who gets bullied sometimes do? They come home and pick on their little brother (Everton). They hate the bully (United) without ever considering that they are just as bad as them.

If the little brother ever fought back (we win a trophy), they will still find a way to knock us back down. I hope one day we dominate to the point were the victim gives the bully a good old right hook and puts him (Liverpool) on his arse.

We have to stop acknowledging them because that's what they want, the world to make them feel special.

As for other clubs getting a European competition ban lifted if Everton had, isn't it what justice is supposed to be about, if you didn't do the crime you don't do any time. And once you'd achieved that lifting all you needed to do was qualify via domestic competition.

And I can't agree that we weren't badly run because we participated in the formation of the Premier League and that not seeing the opportunity and organizing for it is not the fault of top level management. That's a bit like saying that continually losing or getting relegated is not the fault of the Manager/Coach, it's because we wore the wrong jersey.

Will the wheel turn and will we get our turn? Well, only if we prepare properly and don't just sit around waiting for it.

By many accounts of the elder Evertonians who were around at that time, we had a real chance at domestic and European success which would of gave us a headstart on our rivals if you like - something to build on.

United got the greatest manager possibly ever.Chelsea have been given a boost by abramovich.City with Mansour.Liverpool had a pact with the devil.Arsenal also employed one of the best in Wenger.

Only Tottenham for me have built up the old way with a combination of decent executives, good manager and a little luck that Harry Kane came through the ranks. When that happened to Everton with Rooney we were desperate for cash. Imagine a Rooney coming through now were we can offer decent terms!

It is disgusting and needs cleaning up today at the latest, but I won't let bastards like that grind me down.

I notice a Klopp mural (so far, no moustache) in Jamaica Street; great idea to alienate most of the Scousers

Klopp has now done it, Emlyn Hughes did it I think Mark Lawrenson did it but to my knowledge the great Bill Shankly never did. The first three to their shame took a massive dig at us at their moment of greatest triumph. So is it any wonder that the Liverpool fans show no respect for people, property and the law. It comes from the top.

Even after all their clubs success for many red supporters it is the only successful thing they have in their lives and their supporters are everywhere, Maybe that explains why nobody was arrested for damaging the Man City coach, why nobody was charged or even given up to the police for printing counterfeit tickets for Liverpool games or why forcing people into fountains in their homeland is not chargeable.

Earlier we discussed the decline of Everton I think we hit the bottom in 2018 with Sam.Everton declined faster than the reds over the years because we changed tactics with different managers and unsuitable players, the reds had succession Shankly, Paisley, Fagan and then it ended with Dalgjish who had known the system but had not really practised implementing it. We now have a good system, attractive entertaining football and a manager with a 3 year plan. We should now look at succession planning and invite Tim Cahill a die hard blue to become Marco's assistant coach just like Arteta has done with Pep that could give us a choice of 2 future coaches when needed.

We are the adults in this city and I believe our behaviour follows our motto -Nothing but the best is good enough.

I am 38 now and the likes of (future is bright) and (doing things the right way) are concerned I just find it all patronising.

We are all still waiting and it will never change. Just enjoy the day out with your mates because if we do ever win anything it will be few and far between regardless of any plan.

Football is over for fans like us that carry core values. And it is a sad negative fact I hate but its true.Its a business and we are not about to become one of the biggest business.

Leicester shocked us and won the league then sold their main players except Vardy who almost joined Arsenal. Why didn't they want to challenge the next season?Once they laid that message out, the game got even tighter for the likes of us.

Look how bad it is. There are fans in this thread thinking we need a photo of this mess on the wall before a derby.

As far as I'm concerned, they are a disgrace to the community of Merseyside and all things football related. If there was any justice, they would be found, arrested and named and shamed by featuring in the Liverpool Echo and even on the local news.

The usual banter of trying to wind us up is one thing, but what those idiots have done who clearly are a few fuses short of a circuit, have crossed the line and gone too far.

This does further prove though the gap between us and them. We think they’ve hit rock bottom when they nearly went into administration but they came through it unscathed and only a few years later are up at the top again. Us? Well we have not moved an inch, if anything just gone backwards. I’m sure I’m not the only one who doesn’t even argue with them twats any more. It’s their gloating and constant bitter bollocks that winds me up more than anything. But the worrying thing for me is that I worry about them more than I worry about my own team. Have we reached such mediocrity that I can’t get excited any more? I’ve said for years that the club has been run badly since the 70’s and it’s hard to see where it’s gonna change? Is it a case of believing? One things for sure is that those across the park always believe and yet we usually wonder when it’s gonna go to shit. I’ve just had a further example of how bad we are run when I receive an email about a shop sale at evertonfc.com. I go on to buy some stuff and practically everything I wanted was out of stock? How can a commemorative kit be out of stock? It has no out of date on it? It appears that unless you want a lunch box, mug or some ancient Europa League shite then your out of luck.

Anyway, I’ve gone off topic here but I think we have to come to the conclusion that we are going to be badly run for some time and we will be force fed their shite from the media for many years to come as we watch them rub our faces in it. They’re still twats though!!

Hello Kieran, I doubt your average 13 year old toe rag from this city would would have any idea about mystic symbolism.

These are most probably your run of the mill retards, who've watched a Dracula movie and after a few cans of Tennent's Extra Strong or wraps of white powder they have done their stuff.

They won, some prat did some graffiti and there is absolutely fuck all we can do about it except support our club and hope we win soon.

Don't get too indignant, that's their preserve, forget it, look forward to who'll we'll buy who we'll sell and the start of a new season.

I hate them more today than I did yesterday. That is the only consistent buzz I get as a blue and the one thing I love about myself.COYB

Look, as an exiled scouser I know the banter and baiting that goes on between fans of the different hues.

I know it's going to be difficult for Blues in the city for a day or two, but so what? We WOULD do the same (having a dig) if the boot was on the other foot. And don't pretend we wouldn't.

Just look at OURSELVES! Just look at TW this weekend! There was a CL final thread put up. ON REQUEST, the Live Forum was opened up for the game. This thread on the mindless, but EXEEDINGLY trivial act of graffiti is up to 150 posts.

So much for the 'nah-nah, nah-nah-nah!' words of the mawkish and outdated ditty which should be binned from our match day 'we don't care what the RS say'. Evidently, we effing do! FAR too much!

Any and every time around a Derby game, or at moments such as this, when 'they' have a big game, this site is awash with people, scrambling over themselves to demonstrate 'oh, but I hate THEM much more than you do!'

And, as inevitably happens, so many Blues at times such as this bleat on about Heysel, the European ban and how THAT is the pivotal reason we are so far off the pace of the top six today.

Did it hurt us? Absolutely. 35 years on, should we continue to use it as a justification that we are no longer one of England's elite clubs? Absolutely not.

We WERE among the elite at the formation of the PL. Indeed, our very own Phillip Carter - also chairman of the entire English Football League at the time - BETRAYED the league he represented to help set up the PL.

We WERE as well placed as - better placed, even - the majority of the clubs that currently make up the 'top six'. Each and every one of them - at different times - ensured they would reserve their place at the top table. Everton, meanwhile, was reduced to feeding off scraps in the rubbish bins.

(And Phil @ 85...don't be so quick to exonerate BK's role in the club's demise: he has been on the board since 1989, just 4 years after Heysel and three years before the formation of the PL).

Now some are saying the FFP further ensures that nobody outside the existing top six can break into the cartel, so - what?! - there's no point in trying???

If those making those claims did but notice, there was another team competing in Saturday's game against 'them' - Tottenham Hotspurs. Based on the logic of the FFP doomsayers, they should not have been there. But they were - and on merit - and there are many similarities between Spurs and ourselves.

Got a windfall from selling a hot player for mega-bucks (Modric and Bale), in the same way Everton did from Lukaku, but buying cack with it? Check.

Had a mix of 'nearly-but-not-quite', together with 'never-should-have-been-appointed' managers? Check.

Levy joined the Spurs' board in 2000 (having already built up a lot of experience at other clubs, including Rangers in Scotland). BK has 11 years more experience than Levy, having joined Everton's board in 1989.

Levy's husbandry of Spurs, the iconical stadium he has delivered (the projected match day income it will generate swamps every other PL club...incrementally, Spurs are going to be a major, major player for years to come as a result of this), shames BK's and Everton's efforts in the same time period.

BELIEVE!!! Why can't we replicate what Spurs have planned and worked for and achieved in the last decade?

14 supporters were prosecuted for manslaughter, 7 received suspended sentences. 7 received three years and served token amounts of months before being kicked back to England. However whatever sentences get handed down regarding Hillsborough will never be enough. I appreciate that will be controversial to some and I had friend and family at that match but that is my opinion. I wonder how they'd respond toa call for investigation based on advances in technology to identify the many who got away with it.

Same with the ban The Sun campaign, yet they have taken hundreds of millions from Murdoch and his comapnies over the years in the form of Sky TV money. Never saw them handing that back in outrage.

Murphy, Saunders, Carragher and all the red Sky pundits are all heavily linked and appear on Talk Sport who are are a partner to The Sun. At least that Colin Murray fella had the balls to walk away from it due to TS links to it.

They've attacked team buses with CS spray. Vandalised other coaches, stolen tickets from their own, attacked ambulances with badly injured players in to name but a few things yet still they think they are the best supporters in the world.

As I read earlier "We don't hang our flags outside our houses, we take them the match." COYB. Rant over.

I don't know how many of you TWers live in the city but I do and its absolutely vile. Far far worse than it was in 2005. They seem to have developed a new level of gobshiteness that far exceeds what we have witnessed before. They have also developed a new level of hangers on, glory hunters if you like. Again, 2005 in the city was nothing like the invasion that happened over the weekend. People who turned up are the same people who call liverpool a shit hole when they go back to their suburbs wherever they are. I doubt many of them have ever been to Anfield either. Even the locals have developed a new level nastiness. Why is it ok for RS to say to us that "they fucking hate everton" then laugh and think it's a joke? They have no shame and no sense of fair play. At some point the devil will exact the price he charged for entering into whatever deal they made with each other and I for one will piss myself laughing when its paid.

They are terrible losers and even worse winners and it's a million miles away from the banter we had 30 odd years ago. They are nasty and vindictive. They take pride in heysel and the fact that they had us kicked out of Europe. Yes I should be adult about it and ignore it but they make it too hard so consequently I do hate them, they are gobshites and deserve all the hate that comes their way from us and the rest of the country. They seem to think that normal behaviour doesn't apply to them, that they are the self styled best fans in the land and will be forgiven anything. Well fuck them and the pundits that encourage that lie, I'm bitter and proud. If they had any decency then there wouldn't be all this hate but they don't and there is. It wasnt us who murdered 39 people and consistently go on to glorify in it by ramming it down our throats.

Liverpool City Council should have told the RS to remove the Citys crest from their shirt after Heysel - the Liver Bird represents the people of Liverpool.

With regards to the Heysel ban. I still believe it was a political decision by the Thatcher government to agree with UEFA to ban all clubs. The ban should have been 10 years for the RS only and that would have a sent a message to all English supporters to behave in future. The Tories always use the classroom punishment system - if one steps out of line punish the whole class.

Also if Thatcher and her ilk really believed Hillsborough was the RS fans fault why weren't they banned from the FA Cup for a number of seasons. After all that would have been a consistent decision given their decision to ban all English clubs from European competition.

On another subject anyone know where the European Super Cup game will be played - I can't see many European capitals wanting Chelsea and RS fans together in their city - a lot of hate in that combination.

I'm in a whatsapp group and half of them are rednoses. This perfectly sums them up:"I'm not even sure half of the RS actually know why they call us bitter"I've actually been to Anfield more times than all four of them put together, and I've only been once. Yet, they parade around in their shirts and scarfs, passing on their lack of knowledge to their own kids, never intending to take them to Anfield. I had my lad attending Goodison at 3 years old. He too has inherited hatred of all things Red. At least he's been taught our history, and why we're considered bitter for being truthful...

However, I also agree we need to concentrate on moving forward and change our mentality. Our club needs a "fuck the world" mentality.

I'm afraid though that I kind of knew this would happen when they got the early goal against Barca and I knew that Dembele squandering that chance at the Nou Camp would prove costly. We've seen it before with Dortmund and Galatasary and the final in Istanbul. They have this belief, particularly in European games that they're going to prevail. I think I'm right in saying, they didn't win a single away game in the group stages but win the bloody thing! I don't know what it is but journeymen players like Origi and Smicer can become world-beaters on the biggest stage.

What saddens me is that the hardships that we have suffered at their hands are slowly being airbrushed from history. The media peddle this belief that they're the best fans in the world with that song and their half and half scarves held aloft. Every Premiership match on the weekend in April recognises the Hillsborough tragedy and rightly so. Our club proudly stood with them and still does. Heysel never happened though. I didn't see a single column or news feature last week and the anniversary fell on the night of the Europa League final. The Bradford fire disaster was marked by Leeds and Bradford in rugby league the other week, a completely different sport. Because people went to a game and never came home and that should be honoured and respect shown. Football is the biggest sport I know to latch onto the bandwagon of any tragedy or bad-news story in order to promote itself as caring. But because Heysel doesn't fit with the narrative of the RS being the best supporters in the world then it is treated as an elephant in the room: as far as the Sky generation are concerned nobody should ever mention it, if you do, then you are bitter or vindictive.

The one consolation I take is that they effectively lost the league at Goodison park despite Pickford's Christmas present. Whatever they now tell you and how they now frame it, that is the prize they wanted. We last won it in 1987. They last won it in 1990. Their wait is nearly as long as ours.

We need to get our act together as a club though and I hope that we can build a stadium on the banks of the Royal blue Mersey that makes them green with envy and is the catalyst for us getting success on the pitch again.

It's just football at the end of the day, My brother is a Liverpool fan, most of my uncles and cousins too. My late father and grandfather were Liverpool fans. We would banter, but never with an ounce of hatred.

None of my family members are responsible for the death of anybody, and I really do wish Michael and Lyndon would set up a zero-tolerance on posts that constantly refer to Hysel and call of Liverpool fans as murderers. Hysel, more than anything, was the blame of Uefa, and was also a sad representation of the time. but calling Liverpool fans in general as murderers and such makes me even angrier than any trophy they win. And for some on here to even try to diminish what happened at Hillsborough because of Hysel, well I'm sorry, but you should be ashamed. I imagine countless blues on here know somebody who was lost that day, again the responsibility of the FA and the Police.

I avoided this post, cause I knew the sort of ridiculous comments that it would generate, and I would suggest removing from the page because quite simply these comments are embarrassing.

A bit of fucking spray-paint by some drunken fans is not proofs of any scumminess. and if win the PL before Liverpool do, I would imagine we'd do our fair share of graffiti.

I agree, you can't generalise against all Liverpool fans who were at Heysel.The fact remains thought that several Liverpool fans were convicted in a court of law as being responsible for the deaths.

I agree but I would also say it’s self harming. I remember being in a crowd of Tottenham fans v Everton in the 90s. Lots of offensive comments about “thieving scousers, layabouts, murderers.” Thing is, the S*n attitude to Hillsborough for example wasn’t fueled purely by LFC. It was reflective of a wider prejudice against people from Liverpool. So I don’t think we should feed that. Obviously some Liverpool fans are scum, but by the same token some Irish people are in the IRA and at the same game there were lots of chants not just about the IRA but Irish people in general. So once you start down the road of attacking whole groups of people where does it end.

I have the utmost regret that it happened and my thoughts are always with those who lost loved ones on that day.

These very same people laughed at us in the 80s and thought defining our sponsor NEC as No European Cup was hilarious.

I don't name any of them indvidiuals as murderers or anything brutal but I give it back strong ever since childhood and remind them they follow a tribe of scum and never admit it or hold their hands up to anything.

Its been pointed out in this thread but if their club had heart they would recognise Juve fans deaths but as a whole they are nothing like us I am afraid.

always good to know what the enemy are thinking. You should listen to "Woman's Hour" every so often. frightening!

No the vast majority of reds didn't riot at Heysel and were appalled by the deaths, but even so they all still fuel it by repeatedly calling us bitter and flying the Steuea flag, revelling in the fact that they got us banned from Europe. I'm from an era whereby I used to go into the kop at Derbys and take and give whatever banter was there for the taking and most of it was good natured. However those days have long gone and been replaced by nasty vile so called "banter". Derby days are not nice and this has been growing for the last 20 years or so. How did it start? Well I'm sure theres lots of theories but for me it started getting bad when they stopped winning everything in sight. Little quips starting having a nasty edge and the "bitter" tags started with vengeance. I'm quite sure that we replied with kind but we have turned the other cheek for years and years now and I guess the fans have just had enough. We have the media version of liverpool fc rammed down our throat day in day out, we have had all their misdeeds ignored by the media and they revel in it. If they could just enjoy their success then it would be fine. I can take getting beat at football by a better team and they do have a good team but it's all the nastiness that we have to tolerate from them that sticks in the throat. We come on here to vent as generally we do take it on the chin from them in public. They have this article in the red echo so maybe you should see the comments section and see what the RS say, not pleasant reading.

To be honest I've not read all the comments on here but would be surprised if people are denigrating Hillsborough. We all stand together for that.

As I say, before you start having a go at us for reacting to their bike comments, you see how many of their fans don't glorify Heysel and don't call us bitter. UEFA may well have to take some responsibility for Heysel for a dilapidated stadium but there was no mandatory order that they had to riot. They did that all by themselves and resulted in 39 deaths. I seem to remember all those blues going to Rotterdam a week before without feeling the need to riot. And all who still repeatedly call us bitter endorse what happened at Heysel. No it's not nice what's going on but look closer to the red side before having a go at us for collectively disliking the dark side

Long gone are the days of the mixed friendly derby (even though, as you yourself testify, plenty of families still have reds and blues).

Long gone are the days where banter was expected, accepted and batted back without having a darker edge to it.

But the mocking, the jibes, are just words. What has happened to scouse wit (and resilience) if you can't summon a tart response and put them in their place, whatever they fling at you? All the more so if, as claimed, they are plastic non-scousers unused to such biting wit?

Don't allow 'them' to define your emotions, your feelings, your passion, on how you feel about Everton.

It is beyond my comprehension how any Evertonian gives greater weight to their hatred of 'them' than the love they hold for their team, as has been expressed in this very thread.

As for us the best way to deal with it is to be better than them at club level, on the pitch to put them back in their box and the woodwork they've all crawls from. Be interesting to see how the owners actually propose to do this but I think the stadium will be a good start.

"I might have moved to the dark side of the moon thirty years ago, but I was born and bread in the city and I know a thing or two about about scouse wit and banter". . Utter bollocks.

This used to be a sporting City where although the rivalry was fierce, it was respectful and the losers would always take a jolly old ribbing. Now there is an intense dislike of each other. Evertonians have every right to be bitter.

We supported them through tragedy we consoled and shared their grief, we cried with them. The rivalry remained, but the there was a common grief which forged an unusual relationship. . . or so we thought.

We had long since fallen from Grace when we found ourselves having to beat an extremely tough Wimbedon to preserve our top-flight status. We had ceased being a serious threat to them, or anybody else for that matter. We were well and truly on the ropes.. but it wasn't enough for them. Sure they wished us well and told us they were rooting for us, but they were planning "going down" parties all over the City. Our close neighbours and ever so "friendly" rivals were desperate to see us dead and buried. How their true colours were revealed when they angrily hissed "You jammy bastards" after we denied them their party.

Two years later, they were frustrated again when they thought Coventry would send us down. There was no longer any attempt to conceal their desperation to see the demise of our club. Bucharest scarves, turned up in increasing numbers at derby matches. The behavior of their players and fans became increasingly hostile. Hateful, "Nice" Everton were being bullied in the stands and on the pitch. Their players were openly admitting to intimidating the referee. Evertonians making their way around to the Anfield road had to walk the gauntlet. The dirty bastards even threw piss from the stand above. Their "friendly" banter became more vindictive. It became spiteful and it became fucking relentless. How they have rejoiced at our decades of misery. They couldnt match Fergie's Mancs for years so they would try to make our day more miserable.

Those people who want to refer back to the days when banter was something you just had to suck up, have not got a scooby. They can excuse the all too familiar gobshitery which lead to the site of our badge being vandalised and Dixie's statue being disrepected, but they will never come up with an excuse for the oafish delight thousands and thousands of them have taken from these disgusting acts.

It's easy to upset them. They are desperate for praise, don't give them it. offer zero credit. It's ok to be bitter. You are not expected to act like Mother Teresa in the face of their incessant nasty mouths

Like you say friendly banter is a rarity these days, but maybe I am a tad biased, but I believe Liverpool Fans are amongst the worst for sparing any thought in the direction of their opposition fans, whoever they may be.At the end of the day, they are only like us who have supported their team for years.

They think they have a God given right to win any match and without playing well, and never acknowledge that their 'luck' is viewed in Satanic proportion to all those who watch. They say these things even out in the end let's hope that next season is the start of it.

Obviously individually I don't hate my sister, friends etc but collectively as RS fans I do. They have no class. However, they will never be of that much importance to me that I will hate them more than I love Everton. I will let this go in a short while, when the fuss dies down, the flags and scarves get taken down from windows and cars and they stop being arses and I will not give them a second thought until the first derby of the season but for now while they are being arses then collectively I hate them and TW is a great place to vent without stooping to their level in public.

Jay mate you and Fran are a beacon of sanity and in a couple of weeks will agree with both of you but not right now lol

Hillsborough, like Heysel, and like Bradford, was a terrible tragedy that brought an end to professional football being played in crumbling death-trap stadiums, but, with the exception of Bradford, all fans have to take some blame for the way we acted and the behaviour we turned a blind eye to in those days. Realistically, Hillsborough and Heysel could have happened to any club's fans. The RS were (and still are) massive bellends, but I don't think they were unique in that respect.

I love it when they are only 5th in the league and they say they are not interested in football anymore and their manager must be sacked.

A few weeks back a group of Chelsea fans were singing a derogatory song about Salah and because someone posted it on social media, Chelsea identified the fans and banned them from Chelsea for life. So how come when about 40 or 50 of Liverpool supporters pelted the Man City coach with cans and bottles and there being a heavy police presence no arrests were made. Also a couple of weeks back while Liverpool were in Barcelona they pushed 2 people into a fountain in the square, again it was on social media and many named the individuals yet so far nothing from Liverpool.Then while in Madrid for the final a man in his 60s was videoed and put on social media, he was sitting on a wall amongst thousands of Liverpool fans completely naked and was singing and masturbating at the same time.

Then today another video showed what looked like a man and wife sitting on the back of a bus dressed in a Liverpool kit and because it looked like a guy a few seats ahead wasnt singing along with them the wife got up and spat at him. This on a bus in Liverpool.

Who's denying that there is not a darker edge to previous playful 'banter' between the sets of supporters?

We're an easy target for t'other lot in our own city due to the negligence of our own guardians for the past 35 years.

But no. Too many Blues wallow in their own self-pity at 'their' success. Too many Blues continue to dwell on past injustices as the primary reason for the most barren spell, trophywise, in the club's history. And best not analyse our Derby Day results in that time.

If you gonna hate them, use it as a motivating force to insist on better from our own club instead of blubbing on TW and the like.

The popular consensus is you can't change 'them'. What each and every individual Blue can do is change their own mindset: DON'T allow 'them' to define how you feel about Everton and DON'T be so meek and submissive, repeating the 'victim' mantra 'poor ole us.'

As Blues, we used to have to regularly contend with local, clueless glory seeking gobshites, but now we have to hold our own against a global army of twats who to a man show nothing but ignorance to our great club whilst displaying an unbelievable lack of knowledge of the club they claim to love.

You may well be right. But guaranteed if you were in town the last couple of days, never mind the last few years, you wouldn't have written your last posts.

Going back up the thread, some have called this retaliation to Klopp's Muriel being vandalised but there is no evidence that message was football related.

That could very well've been a non-football fan who sprayed 'Nonce' simply because he looks like one.

Jamie C, has wrote a fantastic tribute, about his mate on another thread, and how they used to wind each other up over their respective religions, and it reminds me of how life used to be in this city.

Used to be is what I say, because it’s different now, and people very rarely see the funny side, even when something is actually funny, because the hatred has really grown over the last couple of decades?

Speaking for myself, it would be common to be in a group of around 15/20 lads on derby day, in my younger years, with as many blues as reds, and after the game we would slaughter each other for a couple of hours, and then put the ball away.

Nowadays it’s very rare for me to even speak to a Liverpudlian on derby day, unless Mike G, needs a ticket ofCourse!

Because exactly as I've written, I don't allow 'them' to define me as an Evertonian, or influence the type of person I am.

Those ‘fans' are like a plague, they're everywhere goading and gloating. I saw some 50-year-old board a flight from Manchester to Menorca today, head to toe in Standard Charter. What a complete cretin!

It's hard to be a Blue, my only consolation is that I'm surrounded by Man City and Man Utd fans who absolutely despise those pricks.

Kenwright and his cronies have justifiably been hammered for years on this site. You'd have had to be deaf dumb or blind to have missed it, but this is a different topic.

Lyndon has done what he does. He has reported an Everton related incident. There is little doubt that the perpetrators of this vindictive act of vandalism were kopites. This is the bit you need to try to get your head around. That's why people are talking about it. It's the topic of this conversation.

Somebody could easily come on and have a proper rant about the way our club has been run for thirty years, but people would think he had drunkenly stumbled onto the wrong thread.. Get it? They are different subjects.

There has been plenty of anger expressed about the way our club has been run in the past and no doubt there will be plenty more on other future threads... but read the bleedin title.

No doubt most posters would love to reside in a fairy tale where its only going to be difficult for blues in the city for a "day or two" But the overwhelming majority know that is utter bollocks.

You may have seen it as an "EXCEEDINGLY trivial act" but well over a hundred posters have seen the delight these morons have taken in their intended insult and they have felt disgusted enough to comment on the report... That's kinda the point of this site.

I live in Blyth in Northumberland but am from West Derby Road (not far from Ogdens) and have renewed my season ticket. Unbelievably there are some of the red shite living around the corner. Both born and bred Geordies who quite happily admit they have never been to Anfield or even the city of Liverpool. One told me that he used to be a Man Utd fan.

The way I deal with this is to think of what Brian Labone said. We need to beat these at the tin mine next season and this will dissipate some of the negativity we are feeling at the moment. COYB.

I will never forget the behavior of some of them around the time of that Wimbledon game after all that had gone on before.

What you and Jay mention regarding what Labone said is all very noble and well and good. Unfortunately that was a different time a different era, a lifetime ago. Then we went to Anfield and had as many in the Kop as they did at Goodison.

It would be great if those days were still today but they aren't. Now it's far more tribal at the game as you well know. From the Semele Hughes comments when they were doing well, to the time they were not at all happy with our success of the 80s. From the runaway success of the Ferguson era they have become more and more mouthy.

Possibly the fact that their place is now full of overseas fans paying Thomas Cook rather than locals going the match, who knows. The only thing I know it's getting worse listening to the tosses day in day out.It's no longer good old banter unfortunately

Darren, you're doing 'that thing of yours'. Attributing to the words of another poster associations they haven't made and fabricating from that a contrived position invented in your fevered brain.

I think it depends who you knock around with. The reds I know are all like you guys say it used to be like and less like you say it is like. That's just not my experience at all, but I don't doubt the experiences stated above. As I said, it's probably just who you know.

As for the incident itself, it appears the actions of a couple of morons rather than the behaviour of an entire club. Two RS put it right, and for that they should be commended.

As for the last few days, all I can say is thank god I moved out of the city centre a couple of years ago. But as one of the people (forced) to watch the parade 2005, I bet a good portion of the reported 750,000 were actually blues.

I'm surprised that you've fallen for the "750,000 people on the streets" garbage. I mentioned on post 88 my reasoning for disputing this figure. Goebbels couldn't have done a better job.

But yeah, I think the figure is exaggerated for sure, just as it was in 2005, and I was there that day.

490,000 is a hell of a lot of people for the "city" of Liverpool. And an influx of over a quarter of a million on top of every single person in Liverpool? Did you go? Thousands won't have gone because they have no interest.

Looking at the picture on the thread. Obviously, Everton Brow is hidden by the lockup, to the left is Shaw Street, the right Netherfield Road. The grassy bit used to be Netherfield Road School. The white building, now the Brow shop, used to be the Garden Lane pub. The furthest white building, now a Chinese takeaway, used to be Coffee's pub. At the bottom was the Friary School — my old alma mater!

You don't even understand what the thread is about and you certainly have no understanding of feelings being expressed by many of the posters on here. Try listening. . . Educate yourself

This is an Everton website, the perfect place for people to share their feelings. Nobody needs you to come along and tell them how they should just dismiss this incident.and the stomach churning joy thousands of them have taken from it, as trivial.

There will be many, many Evertonians who will not let these fuckers define their feelings towards our club, but there wont be many among those of that mindset who will feel the need to keep coming back to a thread to repeatedly say so - You do understand why that would be ?

Here's some news for you. "Grand old team" is a tribal football song. It wasnt written by a great composer giving thought and meaning to the words. When people sing "we don't care what the Red Shite say" They don't really mean it. We care as much about what they say as they do about what we say. . And they do care. Why else do you think "The Bitters" (those who dont/wont accept their shite) make them so angry ?

More breaking news. . We wont be "fucking you all wherever you may be" - ThankfullyWe wont be "Hanging kopites one by one" - unfortunatelyAnd nobody actually believed Bobby Latchford walked on fucking water

It's the same for you on this lad. You see the games on the telly, I'm not dismissing your football knowledge for a second. But your opinions on how we should feel or behave in the community we live in are not relevant lad. You're over there and we're over here, stay in your lane and stick to the football.

Every important story will bring a 100+ really valuable posts and then sadly and seemingly inevitably descend into a personal battle between some loud voices with different views on nearly everything.

I've been away since Sunday 26th May on a Nile cruise. Travelled down to London Heathrow, and returned yesterday afternoon. I saw or heard nothing about the Non Champions league final, and only got told the result on Sunday morning.

I only got internet access late last night and to see this thread just made my blood boil. Ok, it's been cleaned up, fair enough, but it just shows the difference in class between us and those gobshites, as I hope that no true blue would ever stoop so low. The Prince Rupert Tower is over 300 hundred years old (I think), and is as much a part of the city of liverpool's history as it is Everton.

I've done the same thing mate. I don't live in Liverpool either so avoiding all the fawning, and all the bullshit hasn't been that bad for me either. I've blocked every RS post on social media from my RS mates, not looked at any photos or videos of them with the cup or anything. It's gone right under my radar.

Some responses I've sent to RS mates on Whatsapp have been things like, "I don't know what you're talking about" and "Nah, I haven't watched any of it". This has been met with near silence from the lot of them :-)

Regarding Liverpool's win, again there will be some of their supporters who don't take victory gracefully, as they don't take defeat gracefully. But many are not like that. Such is life.

Surely, as a sensible way of dealing with people, you minimise interaction with stupid types and focus on more sensible types. Otherwise, you'd waste time in needless angst, and what's the point in that?

For me personally, I don't read newspapers (haven't done since about 1980), I minimise listening to the news (especially the BBC), seldom watch matches other than Everton's (because I can't be arsed, there's too much cheating in the game), and when I do watch matches I switch the sound off so as not to listen to drivel. Despite all of this, I seem to be as well informed about football as most folks I know, and possibly less misinformed.

This approach I have is not a deliberate action I chose to take, but something that arose slowly, starting with not bothering to buy newspapers anymore. It's an approach that minimises exposure to nonsense, and leaves me more time to focus on more interesting stuff, in which I include ToffeeWeb.

I didn't watch the Champions League final, because I was doing other stuff that's more important to me. I haven't read anything about it other than on ToffeeWeb. Some might say, big deal, so what?

The point is, I can control what I'm exposed to, not completely, but sufficiently. I focus on Everton, not the injustices of the past, but on former glories, the present, and possible future glories.

I've lived in Liverpool, been subjected to unpleasant shite about football, but have adapted, like you can adapt to most situations, to the point where the only thing that bothers me is Everton playing badly. When we play well, all is right with the world.

No stay away for as long as you can, all the pubs are still decked out with their banners, and the muppets are still driving around with the stickers on. They will be celebrating this till the start of the new season, they will be on every radio programme telling all and sundry how they will win everything next year.

I don't know why they call us bitter, they hate Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea they are obsessed about talking about us when they win anything. First it was Hughes on the town hall after they won the European Cup saying "Liverpool are magic and Everton are tragic". Now Klopp inferring that he didnt know the population of Liverpool but everybody supports Liverpool as there isn't any alternatives. I guess the David Moyes quote of Everton being the Peoples club still rankles with them.

As is wont for a young lad, the sight of players lifting a shiny big trophy on a bus parade was very tempting.

That is until he put on his Juve top and CR7 boots and started re-enacting various Ronaldo goals in the garden.

I though, "How can they possibly be asking for as much money as the men, this is awful" It was slow, the passing was terrible and there was barely a shot during the entire period I watched.

Then I watched the utter dross in the evening, and thought: "I was wrong. I can think of no reason at all why women shouldn't be paid just as much as men, this is actually worse than the lunchtime game." From what I could see, the majority of the match consisted of Spurs passing the ball around their own penalty area, preceded by a penalty of such stupidity that an 8 year old would have received a severe telling off.

We were on holiday the other month and I told him to pick a kit, and he went straight to a Liverpool one. No I said, why asked the Turk? Who do you support I asked Gala, Fenna? I’m Everton, he’s my son, I said, and good on the Turk who was quick on the uptake, he told my son that they never had his size!

That said, if women ever did get paid the same or nearly the same, we'd probably see male footballers who are good but not good enough to make the grade for top level claiming they are women so as to play women's football at top level. We'd probably then need to have genetic testing to make sure that a 'woman' footballer does not have XY chromosomes.

No adult should ever do that to either side, its beyond taking the piss and in their case it is encouraging a kid to never go the game but talk loads of shit.

Once again it's not surprising that a man that doesn't deal in subtlety is unable to follow and understand the nuances and flow of this thread which very quickly 'moved on' from its title subject, as many threads do.

(Or can we presume you are 'new to these pages' - copyright DH @ 203 - and aren't familiar with this TW phenomenon?).

Good effort, Darren. You got something right for once. I am not denying any Evertonian the right to express what they feel. You, seemingly, do wish to suppress opinion.

And - shock! horror! Football chants are not meant to be taken literally! You mean to tell me Andy King was not a real monarch??? And that Duncan McKenzie didn't have occultist powers???

Interesting that you - the most vitriolic and tart commentator on TW towards your fellow Blues - are effectively confessing that ' they' get to you, as others in this thread also admit to.

Interesting also that there are a number of posters in this very thread - both home city dwellers and more distant Blues - who, like me, prefer to focus on their passion for Everton, rather than their hatred of 'them', and as such are able to deny them the very things they crave: attention and a reaction.

What a bizarre post. You do know I'm an Everton fan, expressing an opinion on Everton on an Everton forum, right?

Read my first post in this thread @ 153. I say right out of the gate it's going to be a tough few days for city dwelling Blues.

But my comments are NOT exclusively aimed at city-based Blues, but the entire global family of Evertonians.

Tony, you will need to do your best Obi-Wan, do not let your boy fall to the dark side... :) Amit - these so called 'friends' can be tiresome. Your boy was showing some class. Juve is the Old Lady of Turin, our ground is known as the Old Lady. Both clubs have a better standing than they ever will. Not sure that last sentence holds up, but just take their attitude and be ashamed of nothing :)

Mind you, I find it a bit weird that in a modern-era competition called the Champions League, neither of this year's finalists has ever won the Premier League.

On the subject of kids. I have a RS ask me to have his little lad for an afternoon a few years ago. He was 3. When I returned him I'd taught him a trick. When I clapped, from another room he shouted out Everton!! Every time without fail for the next month, he'd do it. Shame but I was never asked again to baby sit. Just think of the songs he missed out on.

You can think and express whatever you like about my posts and writing style. I'm cool with that. Unlike some sensitive souls I don't drop my bottom lip and get all precious if and when my posts and I are not well received.

So, ta very much for your advice, but if it's all right with you, I'll continue to write my thoughts, in my voice, in my style.

1) exasperation that 3 days (now 4 and counting) after 'that' game, TW, an Everton fan site, was being dominated by 'them' in the ways I listed.

2) That the disappointing, yet ultimately trivial vandalism, of Rupert's Tower was being used as a vehicle to trot out tired old cliches about our loveable neighbours, in particular that Heysel was the primary cause of Everton's demise in the last 35 years, which I rebut.

3) a call to arms to those despondently surrendering to the belief that Everton is eternally doomed to live in the shadow of t'other lot, offering a like for like example of Spurs who refused (unlike some Blues in this thread) to meekly accept their lot.

Finally, I refute absolutely your charge that 'it always seem to be [me] that kicks off the point scoring against fellow posters and being pedantic to the nth degree.'

My focus on 'Everton only' began as a coping mechanism to try to handle being immersed in shite when living in Liverpool, near both grounds, during my first 24 years. It started in the 69/70 title winning season when we lost 3-0 at home in the Derby. The 'ribbing' from RS went far beyond normal banter imo, and was the first inkling to me, at age 16, of unpleasantness. But at least we then beat them 2-0 in the next Derby and went on to win the title.

But of course, that great Everton team never took the football world by the storm it should have done in the 70s, and the unpleasantness from some RS simply escalated. It was arguably as bad as today, because of the frustration of knowing we had superior players, far more technically gifted than the cross country runners across the park. It got particularly bad after the disallowed Hamilton goal, when I found the lack of sportsmanship repugnant, and as we all know it has seemingly become even worse.

So I had to contrive a way of dealing with all this mentally, and of course anything improves with practice. These days, I always have a sharp counter to any unpleasant RS who I accident upon, and can deal with them easily. But inside, it's very irritating, something to be avoided if possible.

It's easier for me since I've been away from Liverpool, but I still need that coping strategy from time to time. But I can fully understand others who are still surrounded by all the shite thrown at them. If I were still in Liverpool, I suspect I'd be fuming a fair bit of the time. I'd still use my coping mechanism, but it would be more difficult when immersed in shite.

Once again you are thrashing around trying desperately not to drown in a pool of your own smartarsery.

The nuances and flow of this thread had NOT as you claim moved in a different direction. . YOU stepped in front of the traffic like a demented Lollipop woman screaming STOP!!!

Not only did you tell everyone what they shouldnt be angry about, you tried (and failed) to change the course of the thread by telling them what they should be angry about. .

Your attempt to portray yourself as the streetwise exiled scouser who "knows the banter and baiting that goes on between fans " was truly toe curling. It's clear you don't have a clue

"I know it will be difficult for blues in the city for a day or two, but so what?". . Fuck me.. Why, when I was spending half an hour trying to talk my grandaughter into going to school after a tortuous day yesterday, did I not think of that little gem ? what a load off her mind that'd have been. Many posters here know whats in store for their kids and their grand kids and They know it will be for a lot longer than the day or two you glibly talk about.. . It will be months even years.. . and its not just the kids. Tens of thousands of Evertonians will have to work in an environment of hostlity, arrogance and ridicule.

And you lecture them about wasting their anger ? Sorry but the doormats may think they are rising above it, but in reality you are simply being trampled under foot. Not everyone is happy to bend over, believing it will only be for a day or two. They are angry and they want to lash out, stand their ground in the face of this hostility. Meet them head on, Store and nurture their anger for such times when the can give it back in spades. . preferably without some pot herb telling them they should be rising above it.

Listen to what people better placed are saying to you. Allow yourself to be educated. stop telling them they don't understand and therefore don't matter. They have a far better understanding of the situation than you.

They really are a low life bunch of vile bastards. A snakes belly is more off the ground than those gobshites.

Not saying the RS should get the same but they are, well that thick of Henderson is, getting a good slagging.

Football like weddings and funerals can bring the worse out in people, petty squabbles and resentment. I believe in karma and so I have to accept that for all our frustration we deserve what we get in life both good and bad. Take responsibility for your own actions, learn to forgive and life becomes a lot more pleasant to live.

Was my Dad understanding the poor taxi driver's plight and emotions? Probably not. Was he just being a cowardly doormat for not getting out and going nose to nose? Who knows?

But I would wonder did the taxi driver move on and see this as a one-off moment? Might well have done. Who knows?

And my smart-arsey Dad? Suspect he was glad his window stayed in one piece and then went home with a funny memory to tell me and others.

Joe Royle had there number, beat them and then throw little snide comments, (scouse humour!) right into the mix, and they couldn’t get the better of his sides, for this very reason imo? And that’s why I will never have an inferiority complex over Liverpool FC, because I understand my neighbour better than anything.

I suspect it's a lot more difficult for people in their teens, 20's and 30's. They've never witnessed us one season when we've been agead of them.

It would be fair enough if we had to put up with this mythical "2-3 day banter" but this has been ongoing day after day for years.

We were dead lucky this season as, thank God, City just pipped them. I suspect next season may be another story because apart from City there appears nobody else to check the RS. All the other major players are still looking at rebuilding.

Yes we need to look at our own house and do something. Realistically, as normal, the only thing we can look forward to is a chance in one of the Cups. Not to be scoffed at obviously, but in the scheme of things...……..

Very easy to tell people, especially youngsters to turn the other cheek but hard to do when it's non stop every day !

Let’s build it on aggression, aggressive running, aggressive fighting, and loads of aggression from the fans!

In the 'Champions' League, they effectively did a Leicester-style advantaging from unusually below-par performances from top teams (Barca, PSG, Bayern).

Football can be very unpredictable from one season to another, and advantages such as those highlighted can disappear rapidly.

We have humility they have arrogance, we have loyalty they have entitlement and were we embrace art they have pornography.

Even in victory they are unsatisfied, jumping around with ‘six times’ the prize got immense though it is is not what they wanted. It’s torture for them.

I never cease to be amazed at the comments made in any thread which involves the other team in our City.

Jay Wood may be in Brazil but he’s got his finger right on the pulse. As long as we continue to wallow in self-pity and engage in finger pointing we will make no progress as a supporter base or club.

Let’s get to the heart of it- we would LOVE to be parading around our city with hundreds of thousands of people cheering whilst waving a trophy ( a league cup would do for me right now ).

If you want to find fault or apportion blame look no further than our own boardroom. Turning a great club into a plucky mid table team who everybody outside our city ignores has taken many years of criminal negligence. Nobody cares about us because we are not feared.

LFC of course have a number of idiots amongst their supporter base but so do we. We have no right to occupy the moral high ground and kid ourselves that we are superior.

A few clowns painting 6’s on the round tower is deplorable but so is defacing a mural by calling their manager a nonce or paedo. Equally brainless but hardly crimes of the century. Get a sense of proportion.

One final point - I come from a mixed family of blues & reds. My brother and his lad were in Madrid and went to the game.

Neither of them are murderers or scum because they support a different football team from me. I still want them to lose but it doesn’t dominate my life.

I'm not one of those fans who think the problems we have faced down the years can be attributed directly to the events at Heysel. I'm pretty certain I've even never mentioned it on these pages beforeHowever; Your claim that people refer to fans of Liverpool as murders simply because they support another team is absurd. Thirty nine people went to a football match and didnt come back . . just think about that. It has nothing to do with Liverpool simply being another team.These fans were not killed due to an accident ?

I too have many reds n my family and I resent them being referred to as murderers, especially when half of them were not even born at the time. You cant accuse EVERYONE associated with the club of being responsible for events that night, but you would expect those who had nothing to do with it to at least respect the memory of those poor souls and behave.Their actions in Greece. The piss throwing incidents in the Anfield road, The stoning of the Man City bus.. . the list is a substantial one. If vandalising the tower was a one off, it would have been dismissed as the actions of a couple of Mings and instantly forgotten, but because it isn't and because it was unprovoked. It is seen as the latest episode in a catalogue of loutish behavior.. We were not even playing ffs, we havent played for weeks. this criminal act was unprovoked, at a time when they were meant to be celebrating.

Make no mistake, this was intended as an insult. An insult which was magnified a thousandfold by the sheer delight spreading across social media by huge numbers of their supporters.

You want to let wash over you ? Thats up to you, but you have no right to criticise others for being angry. nor to say their deep resentment felt towards them is simply because they support a different football team. There are around ninety different clubs in this country, none of there fans have behaved towards our club in anything like the manner theirs have.

Commenting on a thread which is about their loutish behaviour, doesnt mean they are dominating peoples lives. The only time I have thought about them this week is when spending 20 minutes posting and reading comments on this thread. I would imagine that applies to the overwhelming majority

We have never had and never will get an apology from Liverpool or their supporters just the continuous routine of them having a go at us. The painting of a number six on the tower just the latest irony.

I have lived in Skelmersdale for 52 years and I can assure you that the attitude of Liverpool 'so-called supporters' is no less than it is in the city, I say 'so-called', because they are in the 'main, armchair chair fans'. Like any club there are genuine lads who I have respect for, but I still have to remind them that I was going to watch Liverpool when they played in the Second Division. I was approaching my 16th birthday when they were relegated and 2 months short of 24th when they regained their top flight position.

I truly believe that things were soured by the Heysel incident, when Everton were robbed of the chance to shine on the continent, it wasn't so long after the chant of 'Merseyside, Merseyside' had reverberated around Wembley Stadium.

It's my that opinion that, prior to Heysel, there was rabid rivalry, and since that time, senseless violence. To finish I am attending the funeral on Friday, of my brother-in-law, a Liverpudlian and a gentleman, so let's not tar every "Red' with the same brush.

This thread has attracted nearly three hundred posts. You came on bleating that it had been ruined but here we are 150 posts later and the debate is still raging. There are posters stating that they have enjoyed the thread. Yeah People on both sides of the argument have had their digs, but it would appear only those with nothing to say have taken exception to the tone.

You have posted 6-7 times on this thread alone, Not as many as Jay - Notice you havent asked him how many.

In fairness to Jay Wood, whether you agree with him or not, he always has something to say. (know what I mean) He has crossed swords with several people here giving and taking as he went along, but not once has he bleated or raised imaginary cards to the guys upstairs. He never does - Again, know what I mean?

If it was left solely down to your posts, this discussion would have consisted of a spoof story stating Liverpool would be allowed to start next season with this seasons points tally (which admittedly was funny when it surfaced three weeks ago) and a rather bemusing tale about your arl fella and a taxi driver. . Thankfully It isn't. Most of those who took the trouble to post have actually had something to say on the topic and the thread has rolled on

I was going to add I respect they way you have taken such a high moral stance regarding peoples reaction to this act of vandalism. . but then I remembered who it was who expressed his disgust when being the first introduce this story to these pages..

Like Darren said give them no praise, and I could feel one of my horrible red mates seething at my refusal to accept it was a penalty, but not as much as I was inside my head, when I had to listen to him coming out with some absolute fucking belters, that couldn’t help but make me cringe.

I was Honestly looking at my mate thinking you can’t have spiked hair cos you’re baldy, but I’m definitely getting you a three star jumper and some Brown Air-Ware!

Something to say? Read your last para. Hated the pathetic graffiti but that is how I see it. Pathetic.

Moral high ground? Read the post re my Dad. A little tale about heat of the moment, differing reactions and nobody being on moral high ground.

And just to add another thing in case you come ranting back with accusations of me not saying anything.

Yes they wanted to disrespect us. So far so normal. But to undo an act of good will by their own fans who had cleaned up the initial graffiti?

Today marks the 75th anniversary of the D Day landings in Normandy, which effectively was the beginning of the end of world war two. Watching the live programme from Normandy and the surrounding areas is so sad and humbling. Watching war veterans over there who are recollecting their memories of what happened that day, and the following weeks until Paris was liberated, brings tears to your eyes. One veteran interviewed was so upset as he recalled his mates dying in front of his eyes.

So, just for today, let's forget the red shite because they are not fucking worth it, and instead, remember all those thousands of British, American, Canadian and French soldiers who were killed that day .

Totally agree, I watched the ceremonies from Portsmouth yesterday what brave men they were. My Dad was a sergeant in the Paras in the second World War, but he didnt speak much about it. Makes you proud to be British, then you see pictures of the scum bags in Portugal supporting England fighting with the police and it makes me feel utterly ashamed to be English.

4.2x13 Mm Wafer Tech Screw

Those soldiers must have known that it was the most precarious duty they had to perform, knowing many would be killed and never come back. The words read out on every Armistice day are so true. " We gave our todays for your tomorrows" how very very true.

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